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Should a law student learn to code?
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I am currently a law student and was wondering if I should learn to code better (I already know some Python). As I will work as a lawyer, and wanted to ask for your opinion: Is it worth it for a lawyer to know and understand code? Thanks for your answers and opinions!
Top Comment: Well, I think a lot of people should learn how to code; become citizen programmers where they understand the basics of code but they aren’t doing it as a profession. However you shouldn’t just learn it just to have it in your repertoire. Otherwise, you’re just going to forget it and when you want to use it, it’ll be like you never learned it in the first place. There should be a problem(usually a tedious/repetitive problem in my experience) that you think, “Why the fuck am I doing this when the computer can do it for me”. Having a problem at hand is usually a motivating factor to learn code. I promise you In almost every field there will be something that you’ll see and be like a computer can do this. If you do proceed to learn, you may be overwhelmed with what you got to learn. Learn the fundamentals and don’t bog yourself down with the inner complexities unless you’re genuinely interested in them. As long as your problem is solved, it’s a job well done. TL;DR. Sure go learn it. It honestly can’t hurt. But make sure you have a clear goal in mind and a problem in hand to solve with this new skill PS Python is great for what most people want to do with programming.
Should lawyers learn to code? Arguments for and against
Main Post: Should lawyers learn to code? Arguments for and against
Top Comment:
“Should” is a strange word in this context.
Lawyers should do whatever they want; if they want to code, then they should.
If the question is whether there is a benefit to your legal career in learning to code...no, probably not. You’re a lawyer. If you need additional skills, learn more about taxation or something law related.
Should I learn to code?
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Hi all
I'm a future trainee and I have some time to kill.
There is a lot of buzz around coding and law. I am interested in learning Python (Slaughter & May is introducing a training course for its associates on Python), but I can't see how this will be applied during my training contract.
Does anyone have experience with coding and law, and if so, how will learning to code benefit me?
Many thanks
Top Comment: https://courses.edx.org/courses/course-v1:HarvardX+CS50L+Law/course/# Harvard has a free online course that is computer science for lawyers. Start here and see if you like it. It'll give you immediate applicability of what you're learning to legal issues and teach you the basics. You can decide if you need or want to learn Python after that. In my opinion, as a laywer you won't need much more than the ability to understand code and why it works rather than the ability to make anything with it. But I'm a non-lawyer and self-taught programmer so don't take my word as gospel.
Lawyer looking to switch to a CS career
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Long story short: I'm a lawyer and I hate my career. I've always wanted to work in programming or web design, but never had the guts (or money) to go against my parents' wishes. But I really can't take this anymore.
I taught myself HTML, CSS, and PHP as a pre-teen/teen, and spent a lot of my free time creating/improving websites. I found coding to be fun, and it came naturally to me - whereas law has always been a struggle that's only occasionally tolerable. The #1 regret of my life is pursuing law rather than doing what I really wanted. Recently, I saw the AskReddit thread about learning programming, and I realized that I may be able to switch careers without having to pay for school (I have a lot of student loan debt).
Right now, my general plan is to: (1) learn programming by completing free courses online (I've already started at Codecademy), (2) create a portfolio of websites/apps, and then (3) apply to jobs.
- Is this the right way to go about switching to a CS career after college? Or is there a more effective way to do it?
- Are there important changes/details I should add to my plan?
- Are there any potential obstacles?
- Has anyone else been in a similar situation? What did you do, and how did it go?
Seriously, I'd appreciate any advice at all about this. Or even just reassurance that this plan will work. I've been really, really depressed, and this is the one thing that's giving me any hope at all.
Top Comment:
Hey, keep your head up! I think what you're doing is definitely possible. Not to say that it'll be easy, of course. But if you're not liking what you're doing, absolutely forget what anybody else says! They WILL discourage you and look at you as if you're going through some phase. Ignore this. Obviously, you shouldn't leap into this new area blindly (take finances into consideration) but don't ever let somebody (even yourself) dissuade you from pursuing what you want to do. Computer science is endlessly rewarding, and you'll love it.
I think that learning online courses is a step in the right direction, but online courses are a bit scattered/fragmented at the moment. The "good stuff" is divided amongst different books and sites and forums - the trick is finding them and tying them together. Codecademy is an amazing resource, but it focuses a tad bit more on breadth than depth, IMHO. There's a vast difference between learning python syntax and writing an actual (useful) program or script, for example. It's a good resource to START with. But there are certainly others that you should look into. I've included a list at the bottom of this comment.
Personal note: I'd say the main benefit of attending an actual university is the coherence of the curriculum - you have a set of topics that flow (more or less) into one another. But that's all, really. After all, what is a class but access to resources and a deadline for assignments? Information and motivation is all you need. Getting this kind of coherent structure in your own study routine will be difficult since resources are fragmented and there will not be the pressure of a deadline to motivate you. THAT BEING SAID, If you are diligent and ORGANIZED with the way you proceed, I think you'll be well on your way. Get involved with a group, though. Even if it's just subscribing to the CS subreddits. Get social. You don't have to do this alone.
Some tips and resources:
- Get Eclipse and Sublime Text 2. Eclipse is a free, massively popular IDE for Java, Scala, and other "heavy" programming languages, while ST2 is typically for the "lighter" languages, like Python and Ruby (also massively popular. I use it myself).
- If you're looking into web development (HTML/CSS/Javascript/PHP are mostly used in web development) then look up Jeffrey Way's tutorials. From his tutorials alone, you can learn how to make working websites. For mobile app development, check out youtube and the official websites for Android and iOS. There is really useful "getting started" information on each site.
- Regardless of the kind of development, everything is going to be hard without knowing the basics: basic data structures like arrays and linked lists, concepts like inheritance and polymorphism. If you want to be a "hobby programmer" on the side, then you may be able to pass and make some quick money with just codecademy and some online tutorials, but for a full-fledged understanding (which is not as intimidating as it sounds) you should invest in some books and tackle them head on.
- Check out this site for a crap ton of free resources. If you click the "title" box under the search bar, you'll find more results. Don't be afraid to look beyond the first page of results for good books, I've found gems on the third page.
- Check out coursera org for online courses. I'd look up the courses on data structures to get started.
- Code org is a decent collection of resources.
- w3schools and html net for web development stuff.
- GOOGLE-FU. Learn how to use Google like a monster. Learn things like using "" and - to modify your search results. A sample google search for me might be something like this: site:stackoverflow.com "prevent sql injection" php -node
This will search stackoverflow.com for the exact phrase "prevent sql injection" as well as the general term "php." It will filter out any results that contain the word "node." (Ignore these terms for now. It was just a sample query). Point is, learn how to google. GOOGLE ALL DAY.
- Make a stackoverflow account and read their submission guidelines.
- SO MANY MORE. Feel free to message me at any time for more resources and I'll send them over if I can. ASK ANY QUESTION YOU HAVE, ABSOLUTELY anything. I'll help if I can, or direct you to somewhere where you might be able to learn more! Best of luck.
EDIT: Links weren't formatted properly, oops
From Lawyer to Programmer
Main Post: From Lawyer to Programmer
Top Comment:
This is kinda where I am in my life. Except I haven't gone to law school yet though.
Law to Programming
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A similar post has been created before, but I thought I would benefit (and perhaps others will too) from more specific/up-to-date questions.
I am currently a biglaw attorney and I am interested in learning about transitioning into a programming career. On that point, I have a few questions.
- For an entry-level job in the Bay Area, what can I expect in terms of total compensation? Could you break it down by base salary/bonus/stock-based comp? I currently make about $200k in total compensation. How long will it take to reach that level of compensation?
- How long did it take to learn to code and land your first job? I have a some experience from highschool in HTML/CSS, but I would prefer to learn software development languages (probably Python or similar languages).
- What sort of opportunities are there for advancement/promotion/raises? What does it take to get promoted? Is it simply a matter of skills/experience, or is there a lot of corporate bureaucracy involved? Can you move from entry-level coder to upper management?
- How difficult is it to get a job at the major tech companies (Facebook/Apple/Google/Amazon/etc.)?
- Does not having a degree in computer science hurt you (in terms of opportunities for advancement/compensation)?
Top Comment:
These are better asked over in r/cscareerquestions.
Do lawyers need to learn to code? : r/legaltech
Main Post: Do lawyers need to learn to code? : r/legaltech
Reddit, should I go to law school or get a computer science degree?
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Alright, I've been mulling over this post (and this subject) for a few days now, and I really just need advice/personal experience insight from anyone.
Background: I'm 24 and I graduated a year ago with a BS in Chemistry in the top 5% of my class. I've taken the year off to figure out what I want to do, and at my own (and most people around me's) behest I've taken the LSAT and applied to law schools. I've been admitted to some pretty decent law schools, but nothing that's so good that I just HAVE to jump at the opportunity (think 4 top 30 law schools - 1 in the top 10 and 1 in the top 15). Some have offered a good deal of money but it comes at the price of their ranking. Just PM me if you want the school's names. Law school sometimes seems nightmarish to me – tons of Type A’s competing for spots in jobs that the current economy can barely even support. But, it is also a professional program so job security shouldn’t be bad, and I think I may be overstating the “hell” that is law school / the profession in general. Also, I definitely anticipate working in IP law, and I don’t mind working for start ups and smaller tech companies if it means better hours and more interesting work. This means that I may be better off than most in the law field as far as jobs go.
I’ve also spent this year talking a lot to my friends who work as programmers and web developers along with taking the CarlH programming class. Both really turned me on to the idea of going back and getting a CS degree and possibly pursuing further education if necessary. Part of me really misses science and a less competitive atmosphere. My understanding is that CS won’t open quite as many doors (especially not as many high paying ones right off the bat) as law school. But it will give me more time for a life, and this is especially important considering that I am also an amateur recording studio owner who has done a fair amount of commercial work.
I’m really looking for a way to be comfortable monetarily, at least decently happy with my work, and have time for a life, hobbies, and family. I’m also the kind of person who can be pretty happy with work as long as I’m good at it, but working within the sciences certainly makes me happier than most other things.
I’m really just trying to figure out what YOU think is best from YOUR perspective. I know that a lot depends on who I am as a person, but I want to hear from lawyers, law students, CS majors, programmers, anyone with any advice or recommendations you may have.
EDIT: WOW, thanks guys! I really appreciate all of your advice. I really think part of me may have just needed a little more affirmation with regards to thinking about CS, so I'll keep checking back and definitely do some more soul searching. I'll keep trying to respond to everybody but it may take a little while - thanks for the input!
Top Comment: Go for the CS major. I think you've pretty much made up your mind: But it will give me more time for a life, and this is especially important.... ... working within the sciences certainly makes me happier than most other things. Don't let other people push you towards law school. That's a long, hard, stressful commitment to make without truly wanting to do it. Yes, you'll might make more money, but perhaps at the expense of your happiness. You'll be just fine monetarily with a CS degree, too. Maybe not "buy a Bugatti after my first year" kind of rich, but "live comfortably and happily" rich. Edit: In the effort of full disclosure, you should know that I'm a CS major who has a lot of friends who will be going to law school next year. They're all really gung-ho about it, and I don't think they'd go if they were on the fence. I'm starting a CS PhD program next year. Also, "laworcs" looks like "law"+"orcs". I loled.
Left career as lawyer to get a CS degree, now scared I'll have to return to law with tail between my legs (34 yrs old)
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The Context:
I was unhappy and uninterested with my work as a lawyer, but I was happy learning how to code in my spare time and I had always been a computer enthusiast. Working with technology was not something I thought was an option for me as I nearly failed high school math and was encouraged to pursue liberal arts.
After fumbling around as a lawyer for 7 years at several firms in several different practice areas, I saw no light at the end of the tunnel for me in terms of having an enjoyable career in law (especially due to work-life balance issues in the profession).
I saw that a local university (in Ontario Canada) had a CS second degree program that would only take about 1 to 2 years to complete. I spoke with an independent career advisor and we both agreed that going into this program would be the right career move for me long term. We agreed the money may be less than law, but the career satisfaction would be high and so would the job prospects.
Everything was set up well for me to return to school. I had a lot of savings and a supportive wife, family and friends. I quit my job and returned to school in May 2019 (note: I had to retake high school math while working as a lawyer to gain admission to this program).
My Experience at University:
Initially, going back to school felt like the best decision I'd ever made. I was so glad to leave law. It felt like a weight had been lifted from my shoulders.
Academically, I've been very successful as a CS student. I've managed to achieve a 4.0 GPA (96/100%). I wanted prove to myself that I had it in me to be successful at math/CS if I worked hard.
I've thoroughly enjoyed my studies, but I've also realized how difficult school can be from a mental health / stress standpoint (especially exams). I think the stress is compounded by the fact that I habitually compare myself to my peers who are successful professionals and are achieving a lot more than me personally, professionally, and financially.
My Current Feelings:
I'm about 4 months away from finishing the program and I'm starting to feel a different kind of anxiety. It's related to re-entering the workforce (or rather, the potential failure to do so). I'm afraid I'm going to have a failure to launch. That I'm not going to be able to find a developer job.
I am so scared of disappointing everyone who supported me in pursuing this career change, especially my wife who has been a major supporter and is hoping I can find a job quickly so we can start a family.
My Major Concerns:
- I have no CS work experience: The program I'm in is 1-2 years of straight classes without breaks (even during summer) and thus there is no time to get internships during the program.
- I don't think I can program well enough: Despite my high grades, I don't feel like I know how to program well enough to have companies interested in hiring me.
- I don't have an amazing portfolio: There was no capstone project in my program and I've spent the majority of my time studying for my classes, so I don't have much to show off except many smaller programs I completed as assignments.
My Current Plans:
I have only 2 courses left until I finish my degree. I'll be taking them online this summer (they have been moved online).
My small course load is going to leave me a lot of time in the summer to do whatever it takes to get my first CS job. I have purchased a web dev "bootcamp" course on Udemy, a Spring Boot Java course, and a copy of Cracking the Coding Interview (note: Java is my most used language right now and I noticed a lot of companies near me are looking for Java and Spring/Spring Boot experience).
I am planning on mastering these materials alongside my courses this summer as well as sending out resumes.
I am looking for ANY advice, feedback, or support. Thank you.
Top Comment: You'll be a fantastic every level engineer. You understand a professional environment and you know that a career has to be taken seriously. But bullet points for you. Listen, the market is a little messed up at the moment, so you might stumble a tiny bit at first. Expect that and push hard anyway. Honestly college graduates know jack-all. You're gonna start at the bottom, but you'll shoot up quickly with experience. I think you'll be ok, honestly.
Reddit - The heart of the internet
Main Post: Reddit - The heart of the internet